tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post125800030011476908..comments2024-02-27T20:46:58.487-08:00Comments on Bikes, Beer, and Adventures: Homebrew Tasting: 2011 Flanders Red + Blending TipsJeffrey Cranehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01520169652639837640noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-66001578633033379972014-07-01T22:11:55.597-07:002014-07-01T22:11:55.597-07:00I always consider brewing beer as fun. I remember ...I always consider brewing beer as fun. I remember during my college days, I use to hang out with my friends and we have brewing competition, I really enjoy it because every time we successfully able to formulate new <a href="http://www.homebrewtips.net" rel="nofollow"> Home brewing recipes</a> . I think this is something the most beautiful, enjoyable, memorable and thrilling competition of my college days.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13975388067429203994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-20857684912602484082012-10-09T09:58:49.818-07:002012-10-09T09:58:49.818-07:00Thanks Curtis.
This was an eye opening debate for...Thanks Curtis.<br /><br />This was an eye opening debate for me and glad that homebrewers have such an open dialogue. <br /><br />Now, that I know there are people at the QUAFF meetings that enjoy this type of beer, I'll make sure to bring some to share.Jeffrey Cranehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01520169652639837640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-13103460066469823422012-10-09T08:45:13.930-07:002012-10-09T08:45:13.930-07:00It sounds like this is a discussion over the merit...It sounds like this is a discussion over the merits of reinheitsgebot which fortunately we don't have to comply with, especially considering this is a Belgian, not a German beer. There is no rule in the BJCP that states a brewer must specify all their ingredients; the goal is to produce a beer that most closely resembles the category. <br /><br />I actually tried this beer, Jeff, at the Fair. When I finished judging my category, I had the opportunity to try a few other categories and I thought your beer was fantastic and was a little surprised it didn't take first, but it makes sense now that it came down to a coin flip. I'm glad I now know who the brewer was of this exceptional beer.<br />Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13902726109848836006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-70157970069766959102012-09-19T17:53:15.360-07:002012-09-19T17:53:15.360-07:00I have a barrel in my house. Every beer I submit o...I have a barrel in my house. Every beer I submit out of it goes into specialty as oak aged, or if the standard category allows I at least state it is barrel aged. We could agree this is less important than disclosing fruiting in 17B as the best examples will be oaked. Nevertheless, I disclose it. Beyond that I list the type of barrel and any fruit/other additions. A Flanders Red (17B) is never really fruited, but right in 17C it states that fruited versions should go into fruit beer category. So yeah, to add cherry juice in 17B or 17C without stating I consider cheating. <br /><br />I am adding oak soaked pinot to a Belgian Quad this week. That too will be disclosed. If I ever hit rock bottom and add lactic acid (horrible!!) I would 100% disclose this. I've actually been accused of adding lactic acid by judges to an exceptionally sour unblended Flanders. Why? Because people that add it don't disclose it. If they did, judges wouldn't have to guess. So yes, I think each of those examples would be very good examples of ways to be disingenuous. Adding cherry juice to a blend is the easy way to get cherry pie notes that take years to get naturally. That is my problem with it. It takes zero effort really while the natural route is super hard. Without disclosing it you are held to the same standard as someone who had a much more difficult task. Still, your score shows it was a good beer I just think it was achieved in a way that is easier than natural means. To each their own. <br />-plumAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-35386113583539938622012-09-19T10:11:41.929-07:002012-09-19T10:11:41.929-07:00Thanks for all the feedback guys, I appreciate it....Thanks for all the feedback guys, I appreciate it. I definitely understand your point, but I'm not totally sure if I agree. <br /><br />It appears that the juice is the main complaint toward my blend as being disingenuous. I guess I just look at the juice as any other ingredient I would use in the beer in order to fit the style. How about if I added wine to the beer? I imagine that this would be considered disingenuous, but how about the countless brewers that ferment their beers in red wine barrels. What if I added oak extract at blending instead of aging this in barrels for years? What if I added lactic acid to increase the sourness?<br /><br />The conversation is really over the methods of how the flavors are created and I think this will be a topic that will be debated indefinitely.Jeffrey Cranehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01520169652639837640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-22372646565727802672012-09-19T09:29:31.766-07:002012-09-19T09:29:31.766-07:00I can't think of any 'Flanders Reds' t...I can't think of any 'Flanders Reds' that have fruit juices added that are then entered in 17B by breweries in competition. Which ones do that? Dry hopping doesn't make an IPA a fruit beer. Nevertheless I always inform the judges about dry hopping too.<br />-plum berliner guyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-87626642651505856512012-09-19T09:01:24.037-07:002012-09-19T09:01:24.037-07:00Blending together aged beers is not the same as bl...Blending together aged beers is not the same as blending in fruit juice. <br /><br />Rodenbach and New Belgium do not add fruit juice at bottling to their Flanders Reds. <br /><br />I'm done arguing though so do whatever you want. Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525784633157907242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-45490916658271197112012-09-19T09:00:41.510-07:002012-09-19T09:00:41.510-07:00As someone who always lists the exact procedures a...As someone who always lists the exact procedures and components that comprise my brews I can tell you it is disingenuous. Your beer should have been in Belgian Specialty or Fruit Beer. Look at it like this, do you really think you would have gotten a comment like, "the cherry notes are fantastic" in the Flanders category if the judge had known they were achieved with cherry juice? Of course not as a proper Flanders doesn't need that to achieve big cherry flavor. It's taken me years to learn how to get a complex Flanders using natural means. <br /><br />Another point showing it matters would be the fact that I have repeatedly had points deducted for being honest and even been prevented from winning. For example, I recently submitted a beer into Belgian Specialty that was as follows: a classic Berliner base fermented with sacc and lacto followed by secondary on 2.5lbs of plums per gallon with the addition of a lambic smack pack. The beer scored a 41, but was not allowed to win because Berliner isn't a Belgian style. I knew this would be an issue when I chose the category and could have entered it as a fruit lambic (pretended it wasn't a Berliner base) and won, but that would have been disingenuous. Of course the alternative was to enter it in general specialty, but I knew the Belgian Specialty judges would be in a better position to evaluate this beer. As long as entrants hide additions the very subjective process of judging will be precluded from identifying the truly best beers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-53852938489009710412012-09-19T08:38:59.706-07:002012-09-19T08:38:59.706-07:00Yes, I have become increasingly busy as well. I...Yes, I have become increasingly busy as well. I'm still very interested in brewing a collab Biere de Garde. I actually wish I had one right now.<br /><br />I think at least for the sour beer category that blending is assumed since that is how every company commercially makes it.<br />Jeffrey Cranehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01520169652639837640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-48897187405678934622012-09-19T08:33:37.611-07:002012-09-19T08:33:37.611-07:00Oh Luke, no worries I enjoy healthy discussion lik...Oh Luke, no worries I enjoy healthy discussion like this. <br /><br />It actually never crossed my mind that this type of blending would be "unfair" or require the beer to be entered into another category.<br /><br />Flanders Reds are traditionally a blended product and commercial fruit juices are added to beers all the time. I'm not sure why it would matter if I added the juice at the beginning or end of fermentation (is dry-hopping "doctored"?).<br /><br />And what's your reasoning behind pasteurizing or having a stable product making this less of a "doctored" beer?Jeffrey Cranehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01520169652639837640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-89057197600191352532012-09-19T07:37:32.527-07:002012-09-19T07:37:32.527-07:00Jeff, You have some good advice above, I am close...Jeff, You have some good advice above, I am close on blending my Flanders Red. But with kids getting a solid date is harder than expected. Either way we should meet up again soon to start planning that collab beer. <br /><br />On adding the fruit, a lot of homebrewers do the same additions that are listed above. Personally I don't see anything wrong with the additions but in the future the AHA will need to address this. Maybe having a blended and unblended style guidelines. Lewyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04706904636362867519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-25690421353826527112012-09-18T14:32:00.355-07:002012-09-18T14:32:00.355-07:00Sorry if I'm being pedantic, it's really n...Sorry if I'm being pedantic, it's really not something to get worked up over. Competitions should be fun and it looks like you're having fun! <br /><br />Unfortunately for me, this type of thing is just one of many reasons that I have stopped entering sours into competitions.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525784633157907242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-51637051610036999262012-09-18T14:24:31.155-07:002012-09-18T14:24:31.155-07:00When I drink a "Flanders Red" I assume t...When I drink a "Flanders Red" I assume that the fruity flavors and aromas are fermentation products. I think it's cheating a bit to get these components by adding fruity flavors at bottling. As you said yourself, the blend probably isn't even a stable product. <br /><br />If you somehow pasteurized and then blended I could see the argument a little more, but even then I would still rather see the beer entered into 20 or 23 with a full explanation of what you did. <br /><br />Do you really want to see a traditional Flanders Red (blended or unblended) lose to a "doctored" version?Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525784633157907242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-54818995594649050282012-09-17T21:23:59.295-07:002012-09-17T21:23:59.295-07:00Yes, I did enter this beer into 17B. I am not too ...Yes, I did enter this beer into 17B. I am not too sure why you think it is disingenuous. Do you mind explaining?Jeffrey Cranehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01520169652639837640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-276581264737472765.post-258900715063901152012-09-17T19:10:11.577-07:002012-09-17T19:10:11.577-07:00Did you enter the blended beer into 17B?
To eac...Did you enter the blended beer into 17B? <br /><br />To each their own, but if you did that without noting it on the entry form it is a bit disingenuous.<br /><br />Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525784633157907242noreply@blogger.com